Dead Leaves On The Dirty Wind

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COMMENTERS: Should the Firefly/Serenity ‘Verse continue, do you want them to find a way to resurrect Wash? If so, how? Long lost twin? Rapidly aged clone? Android haunted by the ghost Agent Coulson? I really hope it isn’t done with a Prequel since we wouldn’t see everything that changed in the ‘Verse post-Serenity.


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  1. Honestly, as much as I was totally devastated by Wash's death, I feel like it would cheapen that moment and the feelings that came with it if he pulled a Daniel Jackson (or, alternatively, a Rory) and came back. I really want to see a post-Serenity 'Verse, and a post-Wash crew; those are the things I'm most interested in learning about. That being said, I would totally love to see Wash back in some flashback stories that fill in the backstory of the characters (as individuals) and the crew (as a whole).

    Probably not a popular opinion, but there it is. I like my tragedy – well…- *tragic*. I don't like it prettied up with sparkles and rainbows (read: sci fi magic and deus ex machina devices).

    • I completely agree with you. Leave the dead alone. Let's see how the crew continues without Wash and Shepherd Book (I liked him too). Use the two of them in flashbacks but continue the story.

    • I'll be the dissenting voice then. Wash's death felt unnatural. It seemed like they killed him just to make sure the series couldn't be resurrected. His death was unnecessary as part of the narrative that the film created, it was arbitrary in a way that felt unfair. His character, like all of the main characters on Firefly, helped define the show and it would be a shame if it were to come back without him, especially since Alan Tudyk has been such a strong proponent of bringing the series back for all these years.

      That isn't to say I wouldn't watch if the series was resurrected without him, of course I would, but I would be disappointed if he weren't there.

      • I'm afraid I have to dissent to your dissenting voice… or something, I'm getting lost in grammar. 🙂

        I think the death of Wash, and the way and time it happened, could be seen as a huge motivating factor in the actions of Zoe and the rest of the crew (mainly Zoe) during the big battle scene that follows. There's a lot of drama in right there that stems from that one event.

      • That's the same way I've felt about all Whedon killings (that I've seen). They're never dying in a big fight against a great evil, or sacrificing themselves to buy their loved ones more time. Sometimes there isn't even anyone targeting them. They just die. Instantly. For no reason. (I know you guys will throw rocks at me, but) it seriously bugs me. Why should I get invested in these characters when I'll just get a 3/4 second shot of their instantaneous, possibly entirely random death?
        I've always suspected that Whedon secretly hates his characters, or projects people he hated onto them, and then wreaks a terrible vengeance, for his revengey catharsis.

        • But that's life. People die, for no reason. You wake up one day and find out that your friend just… died. Not in some big epic fight with an army of bad guys, but they just… died. When Joss does it, he's echoing and expounding on that sense of grief for the meaningless lost, and it makes the death more poignant.

  2. They fight their way back to Serenity, put him in a first aid cryo chamber and get the hell out of dodge.

    Next episode they steal nanobots from the central authority to help heal him.

    He wakes up and although his motor skills and speech have been severely damaged, the nanobots continue to work on him so that he's back to being able to fly just in time to leap from his wheel chair and save the day in the season 2 finale.

  3. I both agree with SoundsofSilence above (see "after the death of Wash") AND I think it would be awesome for a reaver to appear with Wash's face and somehow overcome other aspects of reaver-ness to constantly track and chase the crew of Serenity as the Big Bad. At least for one season / story arc.

    See whats-her-name (been a while) have to come face-to-face with the monster who's wearing her husband.

  4. As much as I don't want to say this because he was easily up there in my favorite cast members of the show, I have to agree with SoundsofSilence and say that trying to find a way to bring him back would cheapen the whole thing. He's dead and since the crew generally tended to like him, it would easily stand for additional drama and tension any time he's mentioned.

    That said, maybe working on Marvel will seep into Whedon's brain and he'll think if different ways to resurrect him. They do that in comics damn near constantly.

    • He's been working with Marvel for years – since 2005. Astonishing X-men and Runaways. Two of the best things Marvel's published in the last, oh, three decades. 🙂

  5. It truly pains me to say it but let Firefly rest. I for one can see no way that it can be brought back in a credible manner. So Mal and crew have spent 10 years sloping around the rim living of mostly protein and yet somehow still hitting middle age spread? Let’s not overlook Book either as a missing character. Although I suspect the comics (not read em yet) deal with more of his story, there are huge gaps to be filled. Wash cannot be replaced in any satisfactory way. This isn’t agent Coulson ‘but Fury said he was dead’ dead, he was spiked to a chair and memorials were held if not burials.

    I miss Firefly, I long for it to return and be as great as it ever was but the simple fact is it won’t and can’t be. More than that I don’t want it to be great and get pulled again. That would be even worse than it returning and sucking. And Fox have form at cancelling shows more than once.

    • It pains me to agree, but I too can't see how a reboot would work. I loved it, but it's gone, and the more 'hints' at a reboot, the harder it is to say goodbye. Just let it go peacefully, we got Serenity made, and that was magnificent closure. It's a wonderful universe that is so hard to say goodbye to, but I think it's time.

    • One of the comics does in fact tackle Book's backstory and it is very well done in my opinion, its "The Shepherd's Tale" and worth reading if you can find it

    • According to the official canon Serenity Float Out comic, she was indeed pregnant when Wash died. So there's that.

  6. Simplest possible way?

    Never refer to the events of "Serenity". Ever. In this continuity, it never happened.

    Denial isn't just a river in Egypt, you know… 🙂

    • Yeah, that part with the pikes ? A silly dream. Everybody knows that a spaceship cockpit window can handle a few wooden sticks thrown at it…. After all, it's supposed to resist micro-meteorites at full speed, isn't it ?

  7. Let's face facts, all the original actors have aged past the point of the last time we saw them (except summer, she doesn't age)

    But they could pick the story up a few years down the road, or begin with a new ship and crew but in the same verse

    Hell maybe zoe and wash's kid is captain now

    • That's what I would go for. As much as I love Nathan Fillion, another story set in the same universe with different characters would be really awesome. Wheddon does some really amazing writing/directing so anything he does would be pretty cool. He doesn't have to have all the same actors and characters in a sequel.

      • yeah, he would just have to make sure he doesn't just clone the crew, you know, avoid the whole same crew different faces routine that so many revivals go for

        honestly based on the virality of the original season i think he could pull off a diferent crew with a different story line every season or so if he wanted to

  8. There's only one way Firefly could continue without Wash and that's with Zoe retiring.

    Don't worry though, fellow nerds, it may seem impossible to make a new crew, but it was the magic of Firefly that made you love the first crew to begin with! It should be no problem for Whedon to make it happen a secobd time.

  9. I tend to agree that the only ways to continue Firefly are either just pick up where it left off, without Wash, or to disregard Serenity entirely. which is kinda cheap.

    If Wash simply MUST come along, the only "realistic" method (read: not supernatural or overly ludicrous sci-fi, i.e.. zombie or cyborg or whatever) would be the conspiracy principle: it wasn't Wash who died, it was an alliance spy (or some other, sinister organization), who was switched in at some unspecified point in the past, and Wash has been sitting in a cell for the last however long, wondering why no one has come to rescue him, getting bitter and angsty. Adds drama when he returns . . . Zoe's baby is the imposter's kid, Wash is more sarcastic and hard-edged than before, has trouble forgiving the crew for not noticing the change, especially River, who KNEW he was a different person, but couldn't explain to anyone and be taken seriously . . . .

    Again, I'd rather not, but this concept stretches credibility the least, and actually leads to some new story arcs, like who was behind it all, and why, and what are they going to do about it, etc.

  10. Sean Maher talked about the cast being interested in having Firefly return after 10-15 years since the events of Serenity, with children on board and the characters of a similar age to the actors are now.

    I think that would probably be the best way to do it, and Wash and Book would have to live on as flashbacks in some episodes rather than being central crew members.

    To be honest, I just want it to come back to TV in any form that Whedon wants.

  11. Like a lot of the posters above me, I agree if the show is brought back Wash and Shepherd have to stay dead. Though to be honest I think they should just leave it alone. What we have is wonderful. Why possibly taint it like they did with Futurama? I still watch the new episodes, but they ultimately just remind of what the show used to be. And while Joss Whedon is great, he's not perfect. Dollhouse anyone?

    • Whoa, whoa, whoa!
      What's this about Futurama?
      Some of the best episodes, of that or any other show, have been since the return.

      Okay, I just looked at your comment again, all the way to the end, and it sounds like you're knocking Dollhouse too, one of the best sci-fi shows I've ever seen.

      I say GOOD DAY, SIR!

  12. I think what bothers me more is that people forget Book died, too. 🙁 He was my favorite character and I was downright angry that he died without any of his secrets being revealed. As much as I'd love to see both him and Wash returned to the crew… they'd almost have to ignore the events of Serenity and continue where the original Firefly left off in order to make the show work as well as it did. That's my opinion. Basically by giving the fans what they wanted (closure) with Serenity he kind of screwed any chance the show had of continuing. Again, my opinion here. Can't stress that enough.

    • Book's death isn't as memorable because he was such a footnote in the movie, his death was off-screen.

      Wash's "leaf on the wind" is just such a powerful moment that it is always going to be talked about, but Book's mysteries and backstory (a large portion of which were finally revealed in comic book form) were one of my biggest disappointments with the cancellation of the series.

      • I think for me…Book's death is overlooked because it felt saddening, but like an actual event had happened. WIth Wash, it made absolutely no sense at all. If I remember correctly, it seemed as though when they crashed/landed, there was a wall ahed of them. So how could the Reavers possibly have gotten in FRONT of Serenity to put a pike through the window in the first place?

        Where Book was a sad death that added to the story and took it places, Wash was a cheap shot for the sake of killing someone.

        EDIT: I could be wrong about that "wall" thing. I started to youtube but I really didn't wanna watch that scene over.

  13. I'd like to return to the Firefly 'verse…But the actors have all aged and it wouldn't really be the same without Wash. So perhaps it can move to following a new crew?

  14. Wasn't the movie originally supposed to be completely separate from the series as Whedon just wanted some level of closure in regards to the ongoing sub-plot for the characters or did I just dream that?

    • You dreamt it. Joss said that the film essentially covered plot points from the end of Season 1, and what would have been Season 2, IIRC.

  15. I think I'd like to see the universe continue with a new crew…Maybe after the events of Serenity there's a renewed stirring of the Independence movement (possibly even Zoe, post-Wash, causing problems on outer worlds). The crew this time around have to try and navigate an increasingly hostile fringe as Browncoats and Alliance arm-up again.

    Could even be interesting to have a mixed crew, maybe this time the Captain was an Alliance officer who's starting to lose faith in the central government…particularly when faced with the message Mal broadcast.

  16. I 100% recognize that the reasonable spoiler statue of limitations has run out on this one, but would you believe that I'm in the middle of finally watching Firefly RIGHT NOW AND HAVE TOTALLY AVOIDED THAT SPOILER UP TO THIS POINT?!? HILARIOUS!

  17. Obviously, we get goateed Evil Wash from the savage mirror universe where the Browncoats won and established their own tyrannical empire under Emperor and Empress Malcolm and Zoe Reynolds.

    Also of note, Mirror Book preaches a very medieval religion in which the violence done to others is only slightly greater than the flagellations done to oneself in the name of repentence. Simon is euthanizing mugging victims too far gone on Osiris, and River is secretly reanimating them to serve in the Browncoat secret police as unfeeling monsters without the cerebral activity needed to disobey. The mirror Companions are known as the Black Widows and add poisoning to their repertoire; they are visited for the near-religious experience of being in both perfect orgasmic pleasure and crippling fear and pain from the neurotoxins. Inara is their most sought-after and most expensive member. A clean-shaven mirror-Jayne inexplicably found a sense of decency and returned to Canton. He died leading a failed Mudder revolt. Serenity is the name of the Browncoats' flagship, a massive battlecruiser. A certain Firefly is still gathering rust in that junkyard. Kaylee is friendly, a mechanical genius, and downright adorable in any universe…

      • I'd sure read that too…

        Even if I don't see Mirror-Jayne dying. I see him more in the role of the charismatic, morally good leader (but definitevely not the strategic brain behind the battles) of a rebellion against the empire. More of a figurehead than an actual leader, actually, but respected by his men.

  18. They should leave Wash dead. But they should bring Alan Tudyk back as a presense that only River sees. Leave it ambiguous whether River is hallucinating or her altered brain lets her see ghosts.

  19. I don't think a new pilot would hurt the story. I would feel bad for the replacement, though. The crew was really attached to Wash, and…well, it's hard to replace someone who you fought along side.

  20. Let Firefly rest…

    The TV show was such a convergence of awesome that I can't imagine the magic of the actors/characters and writing to ever converge with enough magic to justify it's existence next to Firefly.

    Since the show ending I've seen most of the actors in other roles and it doesn't captivate me like the crew of Serenity did. That magic can probably never be replicated…

  21. I'd continue where Firefly left off. Serenity was ok but it was always a band-aid tacked on over the bleeding end of Firefly to try and wrap up as many plot lines as possible as fast as possible.
    With a new series they can carry on the way Firefly was meant to be in the first place and follow Whedons original plan for the series.
    Let Serenity be declared a non-canon spin-off that we can credit with raising the series's profile enough to make a full continuation possible.

  22. Wash needs his own spin-off where he wakes up in the Cabin In The Woods 'verse and fights off an assortment of monsters. I'd watch that within an inch of its life.

  23. I'd love it if Firefly returned, but I think it would be HORRIBLE if, no matter how much I liked them, they brought Book & Wash back in anything other than flashback sequences. There's already a pretty solid premise to jump off from: The possibility of a SECOND War for Independence. This war could be even more intense, as there's even the possibility of the occasional Core world siding with the Independence movement, after the broadwave of the Miranda Disaster. A lot more people will have lost faith in the Parliament, and not JUST the fringe-types. The obvious aging of most of the characters can be summed up with the story starting a few years after the events of Serenity, coupled with the strains of the aforementioned war. Hell, based on what war can do to people, it wouldn't necessarily need to be more than 2-4 years further along in the timeline. You KNOW that if a new war began, Mal & company would get involved!

  24. I shall cite things Whedon has written before.

    Let's start with a clone. As seen in Alien Resurrection.

    But the reason the Alliance clones Wash is because they were once Rossum (the villains from Dollhouse). And Wash was once Alpha.

    However it's been a long time since they had a proper 'Doll' to imprint. River and Jubal were the closest, but it didn't work out well.

    So Blue Sun clones Alpha/Wash (forgetting why Alpha's data was deleted once) based off data they took when they put him in Cryogenic Sleep, which he woke up for a few years before becoming the Serenity's pilot. He pulled on the Persona of Wash, and fell in love with a deadly warrior woman.

    Naturally Blue Sun assumed the reason everyone was dead was Reavers.

    Which is why Alpha Wash shall return and help them take out the Alliance for good.

    Also, Mal will turn out to be the child of Echo and Paul Ballard. Cryogenic Sleep there too.

  25. Some messed up blue sun alternate dimenstion widow (big nod to fringe) they tried to bring across another River but due to complications brought accross a Wash. Very difficutly and expensive to do, can're really do it easily or again, but the wash they brough is not our wash, differnt experiences and all that rot. still a great pilot but totally not the same guy, totally mess with the rest of the characters heads and his own

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