Pirate it.

I know piracy is a whole ‘nother discussion, but I find it’s the best solution I’ve come across when there’s a product I really want to support, but a creator that I really don’t.

I probably would have gone to see it anyway once I saw some trailers, so the idea of a bunch of people being angry that I saw a movie is kind of a bonus.

honestly, the best part of it is, it looks terrible(and is based on fairly mediocre sci-fi to begin with), so all the anti-gay folks that are going to go as a sort of passive-aggressive counter-protest are going to blow their money on a dogturd of a movie, and somehow thing it’s a good thing!

First time commenter by the way, just wanted to throw my .02 into something relatively meaningful.

With that said, I’m definitely not about to support Card – the dude funded the lobbyist group which pressured Uganda into instituting the /death penalty/ for homosexuality for God’s sake! Jesus wept.

As for other authors … I used to read Ringo occasionally, but stopped after, well, google “Oh John Ringo no”. Similarly I never could get into Allen Steele because his Coyote series seemed like libertarian wish fulfillment. I liked John C Wright’s /Chaos/ trilogy, but his latest novels just seem like egregious snide mockeries of ideologies he doesn’t understand (and the Hermetic Millenia reads like he shat on the corpse of Cordwainer Smith).

I liked Holly Lisle back in the day, even signed up for her email newsletter – but then /Hawkspar/ featured a protagonist culture that was a fictionalized idealization of US Republicans, and an antagonist culture that was a blatant strawman of US Liberals … and then she sent a newsletter doing linguistic gymnastics to claim that anything less than absolute and total Freedom was support of Slavery. It was the transparent intellectual dishonesty of the argument, more than anything, that annoyed me into unsubscribing.

But yeah, the last two movies I’ve seen in theaters are Pacific Rim and Cowboys vs. Aliens, so I’m not going to use my rare few visits to the theater for this.

I will concede that sex is not a topic for Doctor Who, and as such, asexuality is hard to present in such a forum. That’s not my issue. I’m not expecting to see a member of such-and-such sexuality and/or gender identity in the show. (It’d be nice, if it managed to not be offensive, but not holding my breath. For either.)

I would like to see a proper apology (the ‘happy’ line came from his first attempt at an apology, but only made things worse) but I’m not going to quit the show over it. He is only one cog in a larger machine: I don’t support him, but I do support everyone else involved, on both sides of the camera. It’s not fair that they should have to suffer, just because of one guy.

One of my favorite authors (because he tells a “rippin’ good yarn”, not due to his politics) is an unabashed conservative, and there have been several mentions on his blog about comments Scalzi has made that seem (at least on the surface, I admit I’ve not read the direct statements in question any more than I’ve read Card’s statements on homosexuality, so either or both could be misquoted) just as full as hate for the Republicans/conservatives in the US as Card’s statements are for gays.

The reason I’m asking, is because the question I think people should be asking in this case is “Am I really against hateful speech or am I just against hateful speech against my viewpoints?”

Now, again, I’ve not read the direct quotes in either case, so it’s possible Scalzi is being misquoted, but it’s also possible Card is. But if Scalzi is saying things on his blog like conservatives are idiots who deserve no voice in modern politics (thus being a proponent against their even having a right to vote– which is a fairly fundamental US right), that’s pretty much as hate-filled as any statement Card could make about denying the rights of marriage to gays. The difference being is that most of the commenters here would probably agree with Scalzi to some extent and not to Card.

Just food for thought. Don’t really expect I’ll get a lot of agreement here, but figured I’d try. =)

First off…I can completely understand why people would refuse to see the movie based on OSC’s views. The financial end of the argument makes basically no sense to me, (Because there are so many shades of grey in this situation that anyone can be the bad guy there) but the personal end of it is completely correct and well motivated. There is essentially no valid argument against it.

That said, though…Aside from the heart being in the right place, it’s unbelievably lazy ‘activism’. In my opinion, it’s in extremely poor taste to talk passionately about how you’re skipping this movie because he’s a homophobe unless You do other volunteer work to advocate for human rights. When it comes right down to it, skipping this movie is an extremely small ‘sacrifice’ compared to the people who actually put themselves out there and subject themselves to public ridicule and worse for their beliefs.

If you believe that skipping this movie is the right thing to do for your personal beliefs, then it’s simply something you ought to have done. Not something that you should talk about for a round of back patting.

Conversely, if you believe you have the right to see this movie guilt free-then by all means, go see it, but using loopholes “He has the right to free speech too” to defend your point of view only weakens it. “I wanted to see it.” is a perfectly valid position no one has the moral authority to assault.

I do apologize to all of you if you see my statements as attacking your positions. It’s not meant to be. But the increasingly intense debate here seems to me to be overlooking actual freedom of speech and thought in favor of recruiting people to your own ideological positions.

Others have pointed out that most of his books do not reflect his anti-gay sentiments. Even if Card fails, and cannot extrapolate his message of acceptance to include homosexuals as human beings, I CAN. And his writings are part of what taught me acceptance of others, no matter how different they may be.

I think most people are not arguing that Card’s WORK is anti-gay rights. They are arguing that giving him money when you KNOW he will use it to block gay rights isn’t right. This is a complicated issue, and there is no set answer. Each person really needs to decide for themselves what matters to them. I’m sorry Card feels it is acceptable to spend his time and money in that way, and I will continue to donate MY time and money to Human Rights Campaign and other organizations.

(I’m not interested in seeing the film, mostly because I just assume the movie will be terrible. I am happy with the book.)

All you’re really promoting for that studio, any other studios, or society in general is “Don’t work with people with unpopular political opinions”. Which only serves to discourage political activity, taking part in our political process, or speaking out.
It just teaches Hollywood and our culture in general to be more afraid of being politically incorrect, or of being caught supporting the “wrong” ideas.

And ultimately, what are the “wrong” ideas? the losing side, the “politically incorrect” side, and the “minority” opinions. None of which means they are ACTUALLY wrong, because as we know many of our most important beliefs today would have fallen under those categories in the past (gay rights, even women’s right, both would have been seen in those categories back when)

By trying to teach Hollywood/big business/etc not to work with bigots like OSC, you’re really teaching them to avoid any vocal individuals whose opinions might offend any sizable group. Which in turn is teaching any remotely public figure not to stick their neck out and support their beliefs if there is any risk of those beliefs being controversial.
“Gee, I better not speak out/support/contribute to this cause I believe in, because if it becomes controversial, no studio/publisher/manufacturer/investor/etc will come anywhere near me”.

And it extends beyond effects on “public figures” (as ever social trend ends up doing). Business owners have to start fearing revealing any of their political opinions, because then those with the opposing opinions will boycott them. people in need of investors, people in any influential/powerful job, people who just want to get that promotion/raise even have to start worrying “sure I’d like to sign that petition/donate to that cause/attend that rally, BUT, if my bosses find out, they may not give me that promotion/raise/etc because the company is afraid to appear like it supports this cause by proxy”.
And you just end up with people hollowly agreeing with whatever seems safest at that current moment, regardless of what they really think. Or worse yet, being so blindly obedient to majority rules thinking that they don’t even HAVE their own opinions.

All boycotting a movie, due to the unrelated personal beliefs of one person involved, does in the end is punish political involvement/support. And further empowers the already strong tend towards the mindless following of the All Mighty Deity that is “Political Correctness”.

Also, when the tide has gone the other way, and people who publicly supported things such as gay rights, were punished for it in their professional lives, we all agree that is horrible, wrong and shameful. But then when the shoe is now on the other foot, you’re all suddenly in favor of destroying someones professional life (which face it, if you’re saying no studio should work with OSC again, then you’re saying no one should employ him ever again), because he supported a cause you believe is wrong (ok, yeah it IS wrong. 100%. He’s a total shit for sure, but the principle still stands despite that fact).
Even if I may technically approve of the net result, I F’ing HATE double standards.
Yes OSC is a bigoted dick, who deserves to be repeatedly kicked in the shin every time he walks down the street. But saying that he should be black balled for his political beliefs is to validate every time a person has had their career ruined for supporting any idea currently seen as “wrong”. And the world would be an even shitter place if the “powers that be” (in this case, just a movie studio) always caved to that sort of popular opinion strong-arming.

What phobic things he does in the privacy of this own home, or through the right of free speech, that doesn’t resent actual hate inciting…is his business.